ELP Digest Friday, 8 Jul 1994 Volume 4 : Issue 9 The "Their Sails Swell Full" Edition Today's Topics: Re: ELP Digest V4 #8 (Peter Gunn) Re: ELP Digest V4 #8 (Peter Gunn) Tour Cancelled! Compact Disc Europe re: Endless Enigma discussion ELP live - and Lack of Grandness at the moment! Shy Limbs/Shame CD New album Trading tapes Video of ELP Works Volume 1 tour at Montreal Olympic Stadium new job (video-related discussion) cdeurope.com -- good selection, high prices footware people (question on date of a show) Comments on Prog Rock b-legs Re: ELP Sheet Music Re: Letter to the editor Prelude ======= This is one of two Digest's I'll be sending out in the next few days. The good news is that some readers have heard advance copies of the new ELP album "In the Host Seat". The bad news is that their comments will be in the NEXT edition (probably later today or tomorrow) since this one was getting kind of big and big mail bounces to some readers. So rather than blather on here, I'll let you get to reading this and preparing for the next one. Also, it never got mentioned in mail so far but... I did tape Regis and Kathy Lee from late June and it does appear to be a re-run of their appearance from a year or so ago. Not a new appearance. Other plug... does any reader have access to a machine that has a net-accessible Mosiac/WWW/http server? I've been developing an ELP home page with all the back issues but my employer doesn't yet have an http server that allows outside Internet connections to come in. If someone can get me space and some small-scale account privs on another Internet machine, I'll gladly maintain the ELP home page there. Please send mail if you might be able to help. If noone can help with this, I'll keep trying to find another way to make my ELP information available some other way. - John - Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com ==\ => the same for now ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com =/ Back issues available via anonymous ftp: ftp site: ftp.uwp.edu user name: anonymous password: provide a full email address path: /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1991/elp-digest-1.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1992/elp-digest-2.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1993/elp-digest-3.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1994/elp-digest-4.* Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message below. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 10:30:15 -0400 From: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Re: ELP Digest V4 #8 >The "E-E-F#-E-G-E-A-G#" (Peter Gunn, I think) Edition > in memory of Henry Mancini ELP played it with a final "G" instead of "G#" tho'. :-) Dan ------------------------------ Subject: Re: ELP Digest V4 #8 To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 10:06:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Randy J Ray > >ELP Digest Monday, 20 Jun 1994 > Volume 4 : Issue 8 > >The "E-E-F#-E-G-E-A-G#" (Peter Gunn, I think) Edition > in memory of Henry Mancini I believe that the last G is a natural, not a sharp. Randy, who played bass on Gunn in college, but in a different key... -- """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2852 Denver, CO rray@lookout.ecte.uswc.uswest.com "One of the fondest expressions around is that we can't be the world's police- man. But guess who gets called when suddenly someone needs a cop." - General Colin Powell [ Dan and Randy: Thanks for noticing and correcting. I'm pretty sure I saw sheet music for Peter Gunn at one point and it had the G# but I'd believe it if it were a G natural. When I've played it on the bass, I can convince myself that either one could work. As always, I'm glad people notice the Digest's names since it's always fun to try to think of new ones. - John - ] ------------------------------ From: mathias@tarkus.ocis.temple.edu (mathias thallmayer) Subject: Tour Cancelled! To: j.arnold@bull.com (ELP List) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 14:11:28 EDT I heard on the radio that the ELP tour has been cancelled. I called Hard To Handle, their management company, and they have confirmed it. They said the tour has not been delayed and there are no current plans to reschedule. ELP is supposedly going to be on Regis and Kathy Lee tomorrow (TUE, 6/21). Maybe, they will make an announcement then. -- Mathias ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jun 1994 13:13:43 -0700 From: "Scott Lindsey" Subject: Compact Disc Europe To: "J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com" Paul D. Eccles" wrote: > Works Live is available from cdconnection.com for $20.11. They have all the Also now online is Compact Disc Europe at 199.35.15.100 (or 408-730-8138, <= 9600 8N1). They're basically a CD importer with a database interface like CDC. Most of their CD's are $22+, but here's a representative sampling: Best Revenge, Christmas Album, Honky, Murderock, La Chiesa, plus vinyl, cassette & CD releases of most of the ELP catalogue. Countries of origin tend to be Japan, Holland, and Germany. -- Scott Lindsey ------------------------------ From: telical@isumataq.eskimo.com (Robert Pearson) Subject: Re: ELP Digest V4 #8 To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 18:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Regarding what Mathias had to say in the last digest: I just saw an ad for an album called "Dali: The Endless Enigma". It is an album by ambient electronic artists such as Klaus Schulz in hommage to Dali. I thought it is amusing that they used a song title from a group that is so intense and anti-ambient. Actually, The Endless Enigma is the name of a Dali painting, done before Trilogy. It is however interesting to note again how well-read (well-seen?) Keith, Greg, and Carl are. I'm interested in this side of them: does anyone know about their literary tastes, philosophical beliefs? I know of course about Fripp and Jon Anderson, but nothing seems to rise about Emerson, Lake and Palmer except perhaps Emerson's flirtations :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 16:31:29 +0200 From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested) Subject: ELP live - and Lack of Grandness at the moment! Re: Dave Bentley's list of bootleg CD's in ELP Digest Vol 4, Issue 6: So far as I have listened to those they really go to show that ELP was/is a band very much into improvisations and NOT that mastodont oriented, non flexible group the press has made them into, just "playing their records note for note live". I really would like to know WHY they did that version of Pictures which are on the CD "Impressions", Live in Buffalo N.Y. 1974. I have so far heard about five different versions of Pictures, all more or less true to the 71LP or the RotM version, with various small alterations and solos. But this is as if Pink Floyd ca. 71 should have tried Pictures! It really was freaked out and spaced (if I remember correctly the vocabulary of the psycedelic area!), and blew my mind even if not quite my amplifiers. Do you know anything more about that occasion or if they have tried similar way out versions of Pictures or other pieces? Tarkus from "Hoedown", Live in Tokyo 1972, is also very good, and to a Norwegian the quotes from Grieg during AquaTarkus was pleasing. The group really knows how to make it swing! And the "ELPowell "Back in America", Live in Lakeland 1986, really is so good in sound as you said! It is also very interesting to hear how Powell played Palmer's parts in the old pieces. I think he did quite well, even if he is a lot more bombastic. By the way, I think the most interesting thing from Lakeland is the sequencing of Lake's voice during one verse of Lucky Man! Re: Dave on Brian Emerson, New CD and Tour on ELP Digest Vol 4, Issue 8 It was sad news from Brian Emerson in the latest Digest! I hope the reason is that he is not a fan, and really does not know what the fans would like to hear (or just a bad business man, who can't promote a new CD the right way, having no feelings for the group or looking at fans like you - and me - as a nuicance). ELP has in fact done very many good "songs", like the last half of the Tarkus album, or the last half of ELPowell. As long as they refrain from the cute nonsense they did 77-79 I have no fears. By the way, talking about bad businessmen, I think Victory really may have blown it with their releases last November. I haven't mentioned this before (as I hoped my feelings were unfounded) but I think Victory did several unwise things. FIRST they manged to put out a box set with too little unreleased material, even if the new recordings really were great "songs". There are a lot of unreleased material by the group or by parts of the group, and a lot of great live stuff (as the material mentioned above), just waiting to get out of the vaults! Let's really hope for a "30 Years Box Set" which does the same job for ELP as the box sets have done with Jethro Tull. The Tull Fan Club was even allowed to help Ian Anderson selecting material! In the same way groups like Deep Purple have had several live versions out (e.g. from all three shows on the "Made in Japan" tour), with up to three versions of the same song on the same CD set!!!! That may be a bit much for the average listener, however true fans of ELP would be tempted to buy stuff like that! SECOND they managed to release all ELP CD's remastered at the same time as RoTM. That meant that the fans at the same time had to choose between the CD's and the box, which did not help the sale of either. That kind of competion between releases is very unwise, to say the least! THIRD, they released SEVEREAL versions of the CD's (BSS and Tarkus) which meant another dimension of competitons between the stuff. What versions to buy? Both RoTM, all CD's and the special versions? Or just one, or just two, or buy something with Pink Floyd instead? And in parallel with this the "Welcome Back" video was a flop. Bad editing (e.g. not chronological, no common thread), not stereo, almost no marketing a.s.o. made it a sure non-hit! That is really bad luck as this may have destroyed the market for all the good ELP videos that should be relased (Lyceum 70 - complete, California Jam, The Manticore Tapes, Montreal 77 a.s.o.). And the logic of the group not touring until they see if the new record sells!! I think it is madness to wait with that kind of promotion untill the record sells on it's own merits without promotion! And is there no money to be made from tours as such? Are tours by definition a loss of money? My conclusion is that there is something else behind all this, like Keith's arm or other things (e.g. like E, L and P not really being comfortable with the group anymore). I think ELP should do the same thing as Pink Floyd. Launching into a great world tour, flapping enormous Tarkuses or Manticore baloons over London and Tokyo, having helicopters landing on stage, pianos blown to bits, Palmer playing drums up side down ten feet above the audience, Emerson attacking his old moog with a chainsaw, Lake flying on his magic carpet off stage while desperately singing "Get me a ladder"... Joking aside (well not only joking), I think ELP really has fallen in the hands of bad business advisers. Where are the grandness? Where are the urge to move on into new musical, new instrumental and stage spheres/dimensions/worlds? What ought one to do? Should we write some constructive letters to Victory or ELP and make helpfull suggestions? If I don't hear any more positive and grand news about ELP the next weeks I think I'll do just that! Bjorn-Are ------------------------------ From: StephenBkr@aol.com To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 10:52:12 EDT Subject: Shy Limbs/Shame CD A few weeks ago, I asked if anyone knew of a Japanese ELP promo CD featuring singles by Greg's pre-Crimson bands, The Shame and Shy Limbs. When I was in Tokyo recently, I tried to find out. No one there knew of a promo CD, but there were plenty of copies of a bootleg from Luxembourg called "Rarities" which contained not only Greg's stuff but also a song by The Craig (proto-Carl Palmer?), the Emerson demo for Changing States, ELPowell demos, live ELP at Royal Albert Hall '92, live 3, and a previously unreleased 3 track. Although not an ELP item, while in Japan I also saw a similar German CD boot called "The Weird Person's Guide to King Crimson", featuring various Crimson live cuts and outtakes from '71/72/73/74/83, and pre-Giles, Giles, and Fripp. I am still interested in buying or trading for the Shame/Shy Limbs vinyl 45s, if anyone out there is willing.... (I am checking in Goldmine every week but the print is sooooo small!) Stephen Baker ------------------------------ From: StmpyJCat@aol.com To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 20:50:04 EDT Subject: New album Hello! I'm a newbie and this is my first post! Great to be here! Well, I just talked with the folks at Victory and David Bentley is correct. The official release date in the US is Aug. 23. They haven't begun marketing this yet in the States as Victory has yet to hire a publicist. StmpyJCat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 14:22:51 PSD From: jeffm@sherpa.com To: arnold@cyclades.ma30.bull.com Subject: Trading tapes... For posting: I was wondering if anyone was interested in trading tapes. I have some a two song Keith Emerson demo done with Kevin Gilbert. He played them on Stone Trek in San Jose in 88? I think. Better than what wound up on Black Moon. Thanks in advance, Jeff Melton (jeffm@sherpa.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 16:27:01 -0400 From: "David Wand" To: j.arnold@bull.com Subject: Video of ELP Works Volume 1 tour at Montreal Olympic Stadium I saw the film of ELP's concert at Montreal's Olympic stadium on their Works Volume 1 tour. I hear it is available on video. Would anyone know where I could purchase it? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 23:36:23 -0700 From: shostako@netcom.com (paul madison) To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: new job I no longer am the buyer at Tower Records. But my new job offers another benefit that may be appropriate to this group. I have noticed people saying that they have access to PAL versions of ELP performances. I now work at a film audio/post production facility where we have the equipment to transfer different color standards. I would love to provide my services free (except for making a copy for myself, of course) to anyone wishing to send me a dubbed copy. post, or contact me: shostako@netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jul 1994 13:04:30 EDT From: "Peter C.S. Adams 7-5263" To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: cdeurope.com -- good selection, high prices I recently placed an order with cdconnection.com and was somewhat impressed. They have a fairly good selection and very good prices, but a delivery time of 2 weeks! Today I logged on and was informed that their sister company, cdeurope.com, is on line. So I checked them out. cdeurope.com has a much better selection of progressive music the cdconnection, with pressings from Holland, Germany, and Japan, to name the more common ones. For instance, they had Emerson's Murderock, Best Revenge, La Chiesa (anyone ever heard of this??) and Christmas Album, but not -- alas! -- Inferno. They also had Skinny Puppy's Bites and Remission (not available here) and Anglagard's Hybris (also, as far as I can tell, not available). The latter, in case you are interested, won alt.music.progressive's poll for best album and best new group. The prices, alas, are not as agressive as cdconnection's. The prices seemed to range from $25-45, not including shipping. To reach cdeurope, telnet to cdeurope.com. (When you connect, it's safer to search by artist, not title. Many of the titles are misspelled, e.g. Emerson's "Murder Rock" and Genesis' "Nursery Crime.") +--------------------------------------+ | The sunlights differ, but there is | Peter C.S. Adams | only one darkness. --Ursula LeGuin | UMass-Boston +--------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 23:02:04 PDT From: eanderso@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu (Eric W Anderson) To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: footware people (question on date of a show) Does anybody know the exact date of the Goglic Park, NY 1971 90 minute boot ... I have a great copy of it but it bothers me that I can't locate the precise date ... Also ... if anybody wants to trade/dub tapes please email me with your list and I will respond in kind. Although, I might add that that's my only ELP boot ... I mostly have RUSH and a few ZEP ... and a wide variety of everythig else ... ERK eanderso@galaxy.calpoly.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 09:42:24 +0200 From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no To: J.Arnold@ma30.bull.com Subject: Comments on Prog Rock I just sent an item to Gibraltar - "The Electronic Magazine For Progressive Rock and Related Music" (Piscine@Mailhost.TCS.Tulane.edu), which I think may be of some interest to the Digest. Here it goes: In Gibraltar V4 #26 Mike Borella wrote: >When prog declined in the late '70's, everyone blame punk rock and the >media on that decline. I blame the musicians and the fans. Around '78 >many of the major bands put out weak albums, and the fans kept on >buying them and going to concerts. The media was right - punk was >new and innovative, while prog was old hat. Granted, Yes's Tormato >was much more musical than the Sex Pistol's album, but it was Yes's >fault that they were no longer cutting edge. But Yes fans remained >loyal Yes fans. Perhaps if a few thousand fans had written the band >asking them to play cutting-edge, creative music, with the spirit and >musiciality, but not the style of their early years, the band wouldn't be >in the sorry state it is today. >Now, here in the '90's, we have the best worldwide progressive rock >scene since 1976 or so, and I feel that it is important to be sharp and >critical. I don't want to see the bands I like follow the >Yes/Genesis/ELP/Asia path. Hopefully, bands like Anglagard, Echolyn, >Il Berlione, 5UU's, Happy Family, Banda Elastika, Deus Ex Machina >and others will maintain their striving for excellence throughout their >entire careers. Even though they are some of my favorites among the >newer bands, I'll remain critical of them, and if any of them release an >album that I feel doesn't live up to their potential, I will let them (and >the rest of the world) know. >The bottom line is: if you like a band, support them. If you don't like >them, don't feel like you have to support them just because they are >"progressive." You may do more harm than good. >And finally, I know that my viewpoints don't represent all prog listeners >- as far as I know they just represent me. I'm not convinced that >accepting mediocrity in music helps anyone. I hope that all prog bands >will push themselves and strive for excellence in everything they write, >play, and record. I really think you have put your finger on some right things, Mike! I agree with everything you say about prog in the late 70s and the prog scene today. I have been a diehard fan of creative music for more than 20 years, however (and I think this is not just nostalgia), even if we are better off than ever since 1976, I think we unfortunately still have a LONG way to go before we are back at the glory days of 69-74. What attracted me to prog was the enormous level of diversity, and the abilty to make the music really "swing". The very, very best groups like ELP and Gentle Giant showed diversity on so many levels that it was just incredible. No albums were alike. Almost no melody on any album was alike. They changed instruments, musical style, mood, rhytm a.s.o. from song to song, and even within the songs. ELP's debut album in 1970 went off with a blasting, aggressive instrumental (Barbarian), before they calmed down with the unplugged Take a Pebble. Then Knife Edge in quite another mood, before Emerson played solos on church organ and piano in Three Fates. The album ended with funk (Tank) and a catchy ballad (Lucky Man). One finds a similar kind of diversity on other ELP albums, and on several other groups at the time (though none as much as ELP and Gentle Giant, of course). And the groups had very different backgrounds. To give some indications one could say that Jettro Tull was inspired by folk, blues and classical. YES by pop, classical and rhytm & blues. ELP by jazz, heavy metal, classical and funk. Gentle Giant by folk, classical, pop and rock. Focus by classical, pop and rock. Genesis by soul, folk, classical and rock. PFM by classical and Italian pop. Gryphon by folk and classical. King Crimson by free jazz, avantguard, rock and pop. And none was inspired by each other! It was meaningless to say that ELP was a "YES-clone" or vice versa. The only thing the groups had in common was the ability to take other traditions and make a new kind of music, which really was innovative, daring and at the same time had a beat which for at least some of the bands put them into Top Ten or even in first position. They were not AT the cutting edge of modern music, they were THE cutting edge, until bad judgement from the groups themselves, negative criticism, loss of aggresiveness (as with ELP after their superb Brain Salad Surgery in 73) and just plain tiredness made them easy victims to the sociological forces behind punk and new wave. I fear that even if today's prog has a very high level of musicality, there very often is a lack of necessary elements like originality, diversity, touch with the contemporary scene and a "beat" which goes to make great and relevant music. Of course many groups satisfy the fan's (like me!) cravings for their favorite kind of music, but I think there have been too little musical progress within prog, to put it simple. Reading Gibraltar one ever finds reviews which reads "lot of mellotron", "inspired by Crimson and early Genesis", "YES look-a-like", "ELP clone", "almost like Gentle Giant". "combination of Red and Close to the Edge" a.s.o,. a.s.o., a.s.o. When will we read "nothing like it has been heard before", "really into their own thing", "as relevant in the 90's as XTC or Red Hot Chilli Peppers in the 80's". "Takes the latest of modern classical and Portugesean folk into a new transcendental music, with catchy frases and a heavy hip-hop beat"? Or something like that. My guess is not in another 20 years! Bjorn-Are Davidsen, Oslo, Norway. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 09:14:29 -0400 (EDT) From: frank a conte Subject: b-legs To: Jarnold Are there anyone with great bootlegs of ELP out there? ------------------------------ From: Maureen@eworld.com To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Sun, 03 Jul 94 16:10:36 PDT Subject: Re: ELP Sheet Music In Digest 4/8: GU> ELP have also borrowed extensively from various composers.... One that wasn't on the list- Father Christmas (the bridge between verses) Prokofiev: Lt. Kije/ Suite: Troika Sla/n, Mo! ------------------------------ From: Maureen@eworld.com To: j.arnold@ma30.bull.com Date: Sun, 03 Jul 94 16:10:41 PDT Subject: Re: Letter to the editor In Digest 4.8: BAD> ...Some even had humour. For unknown reasons this last fact BAD> seems to have escaped your reviewer. With statements like BAD> "there weren't many jokes on Tarkus" he missed the fact that BAD> two whole songs on that ELP album was jokes ("Jeremy BAD> Bender" and "Are You Ready Eddy").... Jeremey Bender/The Sheriff on WBMFTTSTNE is hysterical!!! Especially at the end, when Keith and Carl get silly. That reviewer has no sense of humor. Sla/n, Mo! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 4 Issue 9] ************************************