ELP Digest Friday, 16 Dec 1994 Volume 4 : Issue 26 The "I Will Not Cease From Mental Fight" Edition Today's Topics: ITHS & Looking for Soundtrack Behind the scenes - German interview with Keith RE: ELP Digest V4 #24 (ItHS discussion & Pirates in Box Set) RoTM "Pirates" vs Works I "Pirates" ELP NEWSLETTER (Fanzine for the Common Man) Too Much Greg Lake=Bill Shatner Lets get on with it... (the quintessential ItHS micro-review!) Emerson in Pasadena (CA) <----- mark your calendars! Greg on L.A. radio re: ELP Digest (Sinfield, PFM, Lake's voice, etc.) In the Hot Seat Well, at Least They're Being Sensible, Finally (ELP in a.m.p) Prelude ======= Still catching up on the backlog. I'm hoping for at least one more Digest before 1995. That would mean we're averaging at least one every 2 weeks although I'm quite aware that it's more like 2 in one week followed by noen for 3 weeks. I'll try to be more consistent in the new year. Thanks for your continuing patience. Thanks, too, for putting up with the nuisance factor involved with me switching email accounts. And most of all thanks for making the ELP Digest so much fun to put together! - John - [ Administrative information appears at the end of this Digest. ] ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Nov 1994 11:34:25 -0800 To: arnold@iii.net From: mkgust@halcyon.com (Michael and Kaarin Gust) Subject: ITHS & Looking for Soundtrack After listening to ITHS several times, I have to agree that it grew on me. On the first listening, I was struck as to how unlike Black Moon (which in itself was a departure from (what I call) the modern-classical ELP I was used to) it was. But after a few listenings, I decided that it wasn't too bad. It doesn't seem as powerful to me as what I am used to, but at least it is music that I can mostly listen to. I got it as a birthday present so it was a little easier for me. I might even recommend it to a fellow listener with a warning about what it isn't. I too wish for some 20 minute epics: Karn Evil 9, Pirates, Memoirs (I do like it) etc. And now on to unrelated things: I know this isn't really the place, so if you can point me to a better place, feel free. I am an avid listener of ELP so I don't feel too bad! :-) My brother and I are looking for movie soundtracks which my brother has heard may have only been released in Europe, and only briefly. My brother has been looking for the soundtrack to _LadyHawke_ and I have been looking for the soundtrack to _Highlander_. Thanks! Michael Gust -- mkgust@halcyon.com "We should develop anti-satellite weapons because we could not have prevailed without them in 'Red Storm Rising'." -- Vice President Dan Quayle ----------------------------- From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 17:00:47 +0100 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Behind the scenes - German interview with Keith I just received some VERY interesting - and in a way good - news from Liv Whetmore in England (Walton-on-Thames). She has read a German interview with Keith in the November issue of the German edition of "Keyboards" and feels that this explains a lot of how In The Hot Seat turned out to be. The real story seems to be that Keith had written a conceptual piece of 25-30 minutes around Dylan's The Man in the Long Black Coat, and brought this to the studio. However, Keith Olsen didn't want any long pieces on the album, so it wasn't used. Keith also seems to have written a LOT other music to this album which was not used! He expresses an understandable disappointment with Olsen because of this. And he also mentions a "rift" between him and Greg, due to a differences in opinion a.s.o. This does NOT mean that ELP is splitting, at least according to Carl, who about a week ago talked to a friend of Liv about this and about a possible tour next year. Carl also eems to have some misgivings about the new album (if really only Greg is satisfied, it seems like a strange way to make a group album...). However, he maintains that all three of them very much want to tour and hope to do so next year with another band (Kansas, Moody Blues or Jethro Tull). So the good news is that they are not splitting and that Keith still wants to make - and even has composed - long conceptual pieces!!! ITHS may after all be just an "in betweener" before ELP return to some of the REALLY good stuff! Liv also mentions that there was an announcement on Virgin Radio on November 18th on ELP doing Wembley Arena next May. However, according to ELP's management - Liv spoke with them on November 21st - this is NOT true. It's more likely to be Albert Hall, IF they are touring. Liv is also busy preparing an ELP convention in England, and I guess we will hear some more news about that as things get more clear! So there may be reason for more optimism about ELP than some of us has feared lately! Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ From: meenaghan@molbiol.ox.ac.uk Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 17:24:18 +0100 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: RE: ELP Digest V4 #24 I have now listened to ITHS on many occassions and it just does not grow on me. Apart from the opening two tracks and the one before "Man in the long black coat"(can't be bothered to find out the name) which are not too bad, the album is a fairly dull effort to be honest. The reason I'm writing is to proclaim the new version of Pirates from the box set which I heard for the first time last night. Absolutely brilliant, but wasted slightly by the fact that you come crashing back down to earth with "Affairs of the Heart" or some such dirge....who picked the play list. Having played the whole of CD-2 I could hardly believe that the whole thing came from one band(or should that be bland!!). I've given them the two album settling-in period....the next one had better be good, and the songs had better be as of old. SPIKE ------------------------------ From: Richard Eckman Subject: RoTM "Pirates" vs Works I "Pirates" To: arnold@iii.net Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 20:27:01 -0500 (EST) I recently saw a note posted in alt.music.progressive which mentioned that the version of "Pirates" on the Return of the Manticore box set is different from the version on Works Vol. 1. I was sort of skeptical, so I listened to both and, amazingly, they are indeed very different! I'm very impressed with the version on RoTM. Everything seems a lot brighter, the orchestra seems to stand out a lot more, and there seems to be more of "fuzziness" or echo in the vocals. In the note that I first read this in, the difference was attributed to an alternate master tape. Does anyone know more of the background on these different versions of "Pirates"? Are there any other tracks on the box set which differ from their original album counterparts? Richard Eckman NASA Langley Research Center Hampton, VA eckman@eos1.larc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.televerket.tele.no Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 21:11:40 +0100 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: ELP NEWSLETTER Hi everyone! More info from David! I would recommend his newsletter strongly! Bjo/rn Are Re: ELP NEWSLETTER I have an ELP newsletter available thru mail (NO fax, modem or by phone!!). Write to David Terralavoro 43 Spring St Wapp Falls, New York 12590 US: Send a self adressed stamped envelope. Canada/overseas: Send a self addressed envelope + International Reply Coupon RE: GREG LAKE BAND To Paul Eccles - Where did you see Greg Lake Band perform as you described in V4#20? Please write to me about it! David Terralavoro Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ From: Maureen@eworld.com To: arnold@iii.net Date: Wed, 30 Nov 94 17:23:45 PST Subject: Too Much Greg Lake=Bill Shatner OK, maybe the guys on a.m.p._ do_ make some sense, every now and again... > From: sullivan@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) > Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive > Subject: Re: Greg Lake is the Bill Shatner of Prog Rock > Date: 29 Nov 1994 18:01:29 GMT > Organization: The George Washington University, > Washington DC > > Steve Monroe (smonroe) (smonroe@hp7076.stortek.com) > wrote: > : Adam Zion (adamzion@cellar.org) wrote: > : : Terry.May@rebel.genesplicer.org (Terry May) writes: > > : : > AZ> The vocals, though, would have suffered. > : : > > : : > What about SLEP? Keep Lake for vocals and guitars. > > : : Would have worked, though Lake's always been > : : strictly mediocre as a guitarist. > : : > : : > : : : . . .and as a bassist (IMO). . . > > Submitted for your consideration, the bass playing on: > > 21st C Schizoid Man > Endless Enigma (esp. Fugue) > Trilogy > Toccatta > Karn Evil 9 (esp. Second IMpression) > > in addition to tastefully restrained work on tunes like > Lucky Man, From the Beginning > > far from mediocre! In the early 70's, the question of > whether Lake was 'better' than Squire was hotly contested > in high school cafeterias throughout the land! =========== > From: ESTUP07@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU > Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive > Subject: Re: Greg Lake is the Bill Shatner of Prog Rock > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 18:17 > Organization: UCLA Microcomputer Support Office > > In article <3bfq9r$bco@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>, > sullivan@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) writes: > > >Submitted for your consideration, the bass playing on: > > > >21st C Schizoid Man > >Endless Enigma (esp. Fugue) > >Trilogy > >Toccatta > >Karn Evil 9 (esp. Second IMpression) > > > >in addition to tastefully restrained work on tunes like > >Lucky Man, From the Beginning > > Let's not forget Take A Pebble, which contains my favorite > of all his basswork: great tone, melodic, sensitive, > tasteful, and jells perfectly with the other two players. > > >far from mediocre! In the early 70's, the question of > >whether Lake was 'better' than Squire was hotly > >contested in high school cafeterias throughout the land! > > Believe it or not, but being someone who graduated from > high school only a few years back, I can assure you that it > is still contested! Although Lake doesn't have half of the > technical ability that Squire does, at his best, he makes up > for it with just about everything else that is important to > bass playing. I still say that Squire is considerably > better--he is mind-blowing in a way that Lake (or few > other bass players) can ever be--but there are subtler > pleasures which can be found in Lake's work that I only > occasionally see from Squire. Also, there's the old > argument that if he can keep up with the other two, he's > got to be good! But then of course, there's the old saying > that the best bass in that band was Emerson's left hand... > Michael ========== > From: gmh4@po.CWRU.Edu (Gretchen M. Hoefler) > Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive > Subject: Re: Greg Lake is the Bill Shatner of Prog Rock > Date: 30 Nov 1994 04:19:30 GMT > Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, > Ohio (USA) > > Oh, I may be biting my tounge here, but I kinda like > Lake's lyrics. They definitely have a `style' no one else > has. Some songs are nonsense, some are - well I won't say > sick, but they come from a warped mind, and some actually > make sense in a sad, morbid way. I like those last ones. > When the time comes that I understand what he's trying to > say. My favorite are the lyrics he wrote for Promenade. > One day the meaning smacked me in the face and after > that, I couldn't stop listening to it. I will admit as an > all-around lyricist, most are better. But sometimes... > > -- > "Sometimes I lie awake at night, and just stare into the > darkness... Then a voice comes to me that says, `Stop > staring... you're making us nervous.'" > -Charlie Brown ========== > From: sullivan@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Sullivan) > Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive > Subject: Re: Greg Lake is the Bill Shatner of Prog Rock > Date: 30 Nov 1994 17:06:02 GMT > Organization: The George Washington University, > Washington DC > > I have played the bass to Karn Evil 9 1st and 3rd > Impression, I have played the bass to Tarkus (first five > mins), I have played the bass to Fragile, 'Tales', 'Relayer', > Drama, and I a can assure you that they are of comparable > technical difficulty. Squire was (not is) the flashier of > the two players, obviously more given to grandstand bass > soloing, and Lake always seemed to want to be considered > a guitarist first and a bassist second, but the two were > really not that far apart in ability. Squire was just > recorded better, and made a better solo album ;> Sla/n, Mo! Maureen@eWorld.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 13:11:03 EST From: Michel Foisy To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Lets get on with it... Hiya out there in ELP land, I don't know if I'm the only one but all I seem to be reading in the digest in the past few issues are people's gripes about the new album. Let's summarize the discussion: - I hate/dispise/loath/love/like/feel lukewarm/have it grow on me/love ITHS. It's been said so we can now move on to the good stuff...... ------------------------------ From: Maureen@eworld.com To: arnold@iii.net Date: Fri, 02 Dec 94 00:09:45 PST Subject: Emerson in Pasadena (CA) > Board: MUSIC > Topic: ROCK MUSIC (A-K) > Subject: ELP BRAINWASHING!!! > > To: ALL > From: MIKE MYERS (HBPS74A) > > Has anyone seen the new Keyboard magazine? They are > celebrating their 20th anniversay with a special shindig next > month in Pasadena. Among the list of keyboard masters > scheduled to perform are: Keith Emerson! I'm wondering, is > he in any shape to do a live performance these days? Also, will > it be a solo gig or with L and P? Does anybody on here live in the > Los Angeles area? I'd be very interested in seeing a review posted > of the concert. PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service - Date: 12/02 Time: 2:55 AM Sounds interesting!! I am _very_ near Pasadena; I will be picking up "Keyboard" this weekend and checking out the gory details. I'll keep you posted. Sla/n, Mo! Maureen@eWorld.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 15:30:10 -0800 From: dtratt@lmg.jpl.nasa.gov (David M. Tratt) To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Greg on L.A. radio Greg Lake was just on KLSX-FM (L.A.) this afternoon (Dec. 3), attending an annual music fair that the station sponsors. He was interviewed for a while and spent most of his alotted time plugging the Sarah Wood Foundation, which he is clearly very committed to. Greg also bought his guitar along and did a version of "I Believe In Father Christmas." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 12:20:58 GMT From: Oz Hardwick Subject: re: ELP Digest To: John E Arnold Hi John, Thanks for putting me on the E.L.P. list & for sending the latest Digest. I was dipping into the back issues on the home page, & was particularly knocked out by the Pete Sinfield issue. As someone not quite into my teens when I first discovered Progressive Rock, I have to admit that I just didn't have the patience for a lot of soloing, being used to 3-minute pop stuff, but what really attracted me to the genre was the quality of the lyrics, & I soon realised that Sinfield was about the best there is. If you do put an interview together (assuming you haven't already...I've yet to read all the issues), what I'd really like to know about is the P.F.M. connection - how it came about & how he went about writing the lyrics...I don't speak Italian, but I'm reliably informed that there are few similarities - did he know what the originals were about? -& how did the band take to having the original lyrical content replaced? On a closely related topic, he mentioned in passing that he thought P.F.M. were back together...if anyone knows any further information on this, it would be much appreciated. They were the first band I ever saw (1973), & I was fortunate enough to see them a couple of times subsequently & they were excellent. I seem to recall that the drummer had Carl Palmer's old kit (or at least part of...it's a long time ago, but I'm sure there was an E.L.P. logo on one of the gongs). Finally...Greg Lake seems to be getting a bit of stick from just about everyone, so could I just mention that his voice (even though a bit rough at the edges) still sends shivers down my spine, & manages, for me, to transform even the blandest lyric into something worth listening to. All the best, Oz. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 16:25:23 -0800 From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck) To: arnold@iii.net Subject: In the Hot Seat After the thousands of terrible reviews here, I waited to pick up ItHS used. I was quite disappointed with Black Moon, especially Palmer's thudding drumming, and haven't been too happy with any ELP since BSS, really, although I have them all, and all the solo albums. Thought I'd just send this contribution to thank everyone for lowering my expectations so much: ItHS is much better than I expected! I guess I'm one of those few who enjoy the poppish Greg Lake albums. I wasn't expecting ItHS to be Tarkus, but I'd say it'd make the best Lake solo album. Keith's distinctive keyboards are not everywhere, but they are prevalent. And Carl seems to have learned how to play, rather than simply beat, the drums. Very often I find that I can either hate or love something based almost solely on my expectations for it. I'll use prog examples, considering the audience. ;-) For my first example, I expected that Steve Howe's recent "Grand Scheme of Things" album would be a followon to the excellent "Turbulence", and was sorely disappointed. If my expectation was for something like his first two albums, perhaps I would enjoy this album a lot more. Likewise the recent "Deseo" album from Jon Anderson. I was expecting very little. IMO, "In the City of Angels" is the worst CD I have that I haven't sold. On top of this, I'm not much into Latin or Latin-based musics. So I was amazed to find that it's quite a good album. My point is that it's sometimes useful for us to examine and realign our expectations, and to enjoy things in different light than we are otherwise apt to. ------------------------------ From: Maureen@eworld.com To: arnold@iii.net Date: Mon, 05 Dec 94 14:56:59 PST Subject: Well, at Least They're Being Sensible, Finally Subject: Re: Greg Lake is the Bill Shatner of Prog Rock Date: 1 Dec 1994 04:38:37 GMT Organization: Greater Detroit Free-Net, Detroit, MI > In a previous article, sullivan@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Steven > Sullivan) says: > > > ..... Squire was (not is) the flashier of > >the two players, obviously more given to grandstand bass > >soloing, and Lake always seemed to want to be considered a > >guitarist first and a bassist second, but the two were really not > >that far apart in ability. Squire was just recorded better, and > >made a better solo album > > As I recall from an early interview with Lake, he said he always > wanted to be the lead guitarist, but since he was in a band with > Fripp, there was no room for another guitarist, so he became > known as a bassist. ========== Subject: Re: Greg Lake is the Bill Shatner of Prog Rock Date: Sat, 03 Dec 1994 16:30 Organization: University of California, Los Angeles > In article <3bndfa$o0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, > afcpeters@aol.com (AFC PeterS) writes: > > >I agree that they have different styles and fulfill different roles, > >but I'm not sure I see the relationship the way you do. In ELP, I > >think Keith handed Greg his left hand parts a lot. Most of the > >music, other than Lake's own ballads, was conceived from the > >keyboard. > > Hey, no-one made any statement about Lake's composing skills. > We all know that Emerson wrote nearly all of the music in ELP. > We are talking about his playing, and the fact that Lake was able to > handle the difficult parts which Emerson gave him says a lot. > Also, what about his playing on less structured pieces like Take A > Pebble? That's my favorite of all his bass work, and I doubt that > Keith gave him any of parts for that one... > > Michael ------------------------------ From: afcpeters@aol.com (AFC PeterS) Subject: Re: Greg Lake is the Bill Shatner of Prog Rock Date: 4 Dec 1994 13:29:39 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) References: <19941203163020ESTUP07@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> > > > Hey, no-one made any statement about Lake's composing skills. > > Including me. > > > We all know that Emerson wrote nearly all of the music in ELP. > > We are talking about his playing, and the fact that Lake was > > able to handle the difficult parts which Emerson gave him says > > a lot. > > Well, it says something. :) My point is, the types of bass lines > written by keyboard players are often very different from those > written by bassists and guitarists, or those available to bassists in > guitar-conceived music. I think this might have a lot to do with > why Squire's parts were flashier than Lake's. > > > Also, what about his playing on less structured pieces > > like Take A Pebble? That's my favorite of all his bass work, > > and I doubt that Keith gave him any of parts for that one... > > True enough. > > > Peter Stoller Sla/n, Mo! Maureen@eWorld.com ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: arnold@iii.net ==\ => NEW (as of 11/17/94) ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: arnold@iii.net =/ Back issues are available from the World Wide Web ELP Home Page: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Back issues are also available via anonymous ftp: ftp site: ftp.uwp.edu user name: anonymous password: provide a full email address path: /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1991/elp-digest-1.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1992/elp-digest-2.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1993/elp-digest-3.* /pub/music/lists/elp/digests/1994/elp-digest-4.* Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message below. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 4 Issue 26] *************************************