ELP Digest Friday, June 23 1995 Volume 5 : Issue 15 The "Side by Side Forever More" Edition Today's Topics: Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (unrelated ELP observations) Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (re: covers of ELP tunes) ELP tour lists Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (re: good reviews of ELP) For ELP Digest (Will Alexander on Keith's hands from AOL) ELP paraphenalia shop talk from players Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (re: Changing State) Abaddon's Trumpets Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (re: lyrics) ELP and Magma Re ELP Digest V5 #11 (Keith's GX-1) covers, quotes re: rumors of ELP disbanding Re: Y is Every1 PO'd over new ELP ItHS? Re: ELP Digest V5 #12 (re: BSS lyrics) The Barbarian in live version Bad Words in ELP? RE: ELP covers Emerson solo disc? Is it out? bss Best Works/Changing States Re: Other Bands that sound like. Prelude ======= Another big issue. And the end of the backlog seems to be in sight. Soon, we'll have much closer to "real time" ELP chat. We're into the May postings and I expect to be caught up sometime in July. I'll be away from my mail for a little while next week, so please be patient with me if you send me some mail. Till next time, - John - ------------------------------------------------------------ From: rkp@druak.att.com (D4162/-PierceRK(DR9706)412) To: arnold@iii.net Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 09:23:24 MDT Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (unrelated ELP observations) John, Just a couple of unrelated items. I found a CD-single at a store the other day and wondered if others had seen it. It's titled "I Believe in Father Christmas", catalog #383 483 004-2 on the Victory label. It has: I Believe in Father Christmas (3:26) (Lake/Sinfield) Jerusalem (2:44) (Parry/Blake; arr ELP) When the Apple Blossoms Bloom in the Windmills of your Mind I'll be Your Valentine (3:56) (ELP) It notes that the first two came from the Manticore box set. My other note was that at the opening day game at the new Coors Field, home of the Colorado Rockies, they used "Karn Evil 9, Movement 1, Part 2" as the opening song just before the players took the field. While this was going on, the Rockies mascot was riding around in a golf cart along the perimeter of the field throwing souvenirs into the stands. What was amazing was they played almost the entire section, a good 2-3 minutes worth. Russ Pierce rkp@druak.att.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:44:18 +0100 To: John E Arnold From: st94f365@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (A. Radder) Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (re: covers of ELP tunes) terry kroetsch f writes: >My thread is: Has anyone done covers of ELP songs? I know that dance >version of Lucky Man (I'd LOVE to hear that) is around but has anyone >done a cover of Eruption? Perhaps Dream Theatre or Mastermind? Is it just >impossible to do? Hmm... Sounds like an idea to me :) I am an amateur electronic musician, and I have done some stuff that is a little reminiscent of ELP, but I haven't ever done a cover. Perhaps we should all chip in and buy a copy of this dance version of Lucky Man, and send it to John along with some tapes so he can copy it for us :) -Aaron -------------------------------- Aaron S. Radder st94f365@post.drexel.edu Drexel Engineering Curriculum Section 10 -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 00:18:31 -0500 To: arnold@iii.net From: belier@riq.qc.ca (Francois Angers) Subject: ELP tour lists Hi, I'm trying to put together a list of all ELP shows but due to my young age (21...) I only have most of the dates from the last two tours (except some euro dates) and some dates from the 70's. If anyone on this list could help me I'd appreciate greatly (I could post the list every once in a while). It is part of a major list combining all (most) progressive bands tour lists (right now I have 10K plus dates from more than 300 bands). Hope to hear from someone soon, Francois Angers belier@riq.qc.ca ------------------------------ From: "WILLIAM HURLEY MCAVENEY" To: John E Arnold Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 15:48:31 EST Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (re: good reviews of ELP) > any way. However there were one or two journalists who rated the > band terrifically but they wrote believe it or not for the more elevated > press I mean one guy called Derek Joel who was a fairly well > known jazz critic for the Sunday Times rated the band tremendous > but that didn't really have an affect on the public in this country. But Actually, I think the guy's name is spelled 'Derek Jewell'. Anyone who has the Jethro Tull classical tribute album 'A Classic Case' should recognize the name from the liner notes of the CD. He actually provides a really good explanation of why 'progressive music' is not illegitimate solely on the basis of the fact that it is not blues based... I don't have it with me right now... I'll send a quote later... ------------------------------ From: Steven^Grezlak.HQ.PO1@WPUSER.ccci.org To: arnold@iii.net Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 17:49:54 -0500 Subject: For ELP Digest (Will Alexander on Keith's hands from AOL) I was just rumminating the holdings in alt.music.prog and happened upon this interesting letter. I forward it to the Digest with no comment, since I have no way of authenticating its vercity. I have no reason to believe it is not from Will Alexander, as it would be a pretty bored individual who would take the time to create a bogus stir among the votaries of E, L and P. > > > > > Subject: Re: Keith Emerson/Tony Kaye:Hands? From: midimastr@aol.com (MIDI Mastr) Date: 20 Apr 1995 13:26:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3n65go$46d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Let me set the record straight as to K.E.'s situation. First of all I am EMO's engineer and I did keyboard on the 1992-93 tour. The problem was manifesting itself as losing the feeling (numbness) in the 4-5 fingers on his right hand. Many shows were literally played with three fingers. The problem was diagnosed as a "compression" of the ulnar nerve in the elbow preventing the flow of nerve information between the brain and the right hand. His elbow was opened up, the nerve was separated, and then "transposed" to a new location. Yes, this hurt like Hell. I took him to Cedars Sainai and picked him up. I also witnessed the nerve conduction tests he under went. BTW, his left arm/hand conduction results were so good that the Dr. thought that the equipment was out of calabration. He is recovering well. We just did 13 episodes of Iron Man (animated cartoon series) for Marvel Amimation and his playing/composition skills completely blow me away. ELP is for all intent is over. Look forward to several new projects/releases/movie scores/re-releases in the near future. I believe that EMO will achieve his finest work in the coming times. Keep the Faith, Sincerely, Will Alexander (MIDIMastr@AOL.com) MIDI Mastr@AOL.COM < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < < On another note, I'd be interested if anyone has the "new" Emerson CD and can give a review(s). I watch my pennies and don't want tread on terra cognita. Blessings, Steven Grezlak sgrezlak@ccci.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:31:06 -29900 From: Eugene Arthur McKechnie To: arnold@iii.net Subject: ELP paraphenalia We have a sight that will make you drool. Seven virgins performing on a mule, keep it cool keep it cool. That's sight I would pay to see. Thanks for the ELP Digest. I am wondering if there is anyone that has ELP paraphernalia. Such as, t-shirts, posters, CDs for a reasonable price. My address is uge2no@charger.newhaven.edu. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Apr 95 23:29:58 EDT From: robert vasseur <75107.3331@compuserve.com> To: John E Arnold Subject: shop talk from players john thanks can you post that I would like to anyone who plays keiths music and can share info on fingering, charts, a copy of hoedown,tank,or the telephone number for boosey and hawkes.I have the three E.L.P.music books that made it to the stores. I am mostly interested in songs with out vocals. Not that I don't like Greg (bubba) lake.I am starting to LIKE hot seat in fact!(you wish you had a demo that good) but I miss haveing the longer tunes(andhymms)and I would like Keith to do a Jazz album. Does anyone got a chart to little "airbella" I think I have all the nice recordings thanks to an import shop back in the 70s. but I do not have the christmas album (wish) anyway thanks bob. (john in my last letter I think I got a tune on the wrong album sorry I was up to late just like tonight) ------------------------------ From: Jim Smith Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (re: Changing State) To: arnold@iii.net (John E Arnold) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:11:48 -0800 (PDT) Hi, elp-folks! For those of you who were disappointed by ITHS, I'd strongly suggest that you track down Keith Emerson's new CD, "Changing States." It's really good! It's the type of direction that I would have liked to seen ELP go in. The record was made in 1989, and produced and coordinated by Kevin Gilbert, of "Toy Matinee." A few of the songs sound sort of like something Toy Matinee might do (which is fine), but overall Keith really kicks it out. On "The Church," he plays one of the best Hammond leads of his career, in my opinion. He plays some extremely fast and short series of notes, sort of a stuttering effect almost, which I'd also heard him do during the 1993 tour, but nowhere else. I think he must have come up with that particular attack of the organ recently. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I really like the album. I hope it's not the last music of that type we hear from Keith. vinsold0@seraph1.sewanee.edu (Duncan Vinson) wrote: > Subject: ELP Classical connection > > There are obviously many undocumented classical references in ELP's work, > but here's three to get the list started: As John Arnold mentioned, there is a new version of the ELP "quotes list" on the way, based on the one that I originated several years ago. When I last printed the list, it had over 75 musical references on it, and Steve Plotczyk, who is working on it now, has greatly expanded it. (I hope that by the time you read this, it's already been printed in the digest.) > The final section of "Trilogy" is vaguely reminiscent of one of the songs > (can't remember the title) in Leonard Bernstein's "West Side Story". I think you're referring to Bernstein's "America," a piece that has been performed by both the Nice and Emerson, Lake and Palmer. I've noticed that similarity before as well. The most famous musically interesting "trick" in that piece of music is the use of alternating measures of 6/8 ("I like to be in A-") and 3/4 ("Merica"), and a similar thing is going on in Trilogy, although the rhythm is more complex. The chord changes also follow a rhythm that is similar to America, although not the same. Emerson is definitely influenced by a lot of other people's music, even when he doesn't directly quote it. Another good example of this is the beginning of ELPowell's "Learning To Fly" and the beginning of Bartok's "divertimento for string orchestra" (Thanks, Burch Seymour and Steve Plotczyk). They are similar, but not exactly the same. Antonio Augusto Gorni agorni@cat.cce.usp.br also contributed some quotes to a recent issue of the digest, and I just wanted to say thanks, and those were also already in the list, which I hope is published by now. All the Best, Jim Smith smithj@sr.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Jim Smith Subject: Abaddon's Trumpets To: arnold@iii.net (John Arnold) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:07:19 -0800 (PDT) Hi again, One thing I forgot to mention in my last message about Keith's new album, "Changing States:" The version of Abaddon's Bolero which Keith recorded with the London Symphony Orchestra in the same sessions as his Piano Concerto is on this album. It's now clear why this version was never released on an ELP album. Some of the brass players clearly didn't like what they were doing! In the penultimate time through the melody, many of the trumpets are out of tune, and I seem to hear a derisive attitude in their playing, if that's possible. Emerson had said that he had problems with the orchestra, and had to threaten to hire them until they got his concerto right; apparently he wasn't able to coerce them into giving him a decent performance of the Bolero. It's not an especially difficult piece, and these are supposed to be top-notch musicians. The album's producer, Kevin Gilbert, is credited with solo tuba in this track, and the liner notes also mention his putting some time into the track. Clearly, work was needed to get it into the almost-acceptable form in which it appears on the album. -- Jim Smith smithj@sr.hp.com (707)577-4632 telnet 577-4632 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 18:49:35 BST From: Oz Hardwick Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #11 (re: lyrics) To: John E Arnold > From: bjorn-are.davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no > Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 13:58:58 +0100 > Subject: ELP on other lists > Any comments on the self seriousness of ELP? Hey, they made Jeremy > Bender, Are you Ready Eddy and so and so and so and on. Pretensious, > maybe, self serious - no. Whether or not the lyrics of ELP may really be considered pretentious (which is surely as much to do with intent as it is with content), I for one am rather sorry that there is rather less of this kind of lyric around than there was 20 or 25 years ago. Maybe that makes me pretentious, but I think it's sad that so few bands nowadays really use words like they enjoy them - lyrics are often so one-dimensional, whereas in the best work of ELP, Yes, King Crimson, Jade Warrior, etc, etc, they shimmer with meanings & possibilities. (IMHO, current Scottish band Citizen Cain are one of the few who currently take risks with lyrics. > Does anyone know more about this John Peel stuff? > Did ELP receive favorable press coverage (reviews and articles) > by anyone else then Chris Welch? John Peel, for the benefit of non-UK subscribers, is a very influential "alternative" DJ, who has been around since the 60's & has championed many, many bands who would not otherwise make it on to national radio. I tend to remember him for the bands he HAS played, rather than those he has not....maybe he didn't like progressive music (I don't remember), but he's one of the few major radio personalities in Britain over the last 30 years to consistently stick his neck out for bands he believes in. As for good reviews...well, Alan Freeman (who you'll all know from his introductions on "Welcome Back....." & "Albert Hall" always gave ELP a lot of exposure on his radio show - in particular, he devoted an hour long programme to "BSS" when it was released, playing tracks & interviewing Carl. As I recall, British press was fairly negative, 'though I seem to recall the early/mid 70s mag "Music Scene" was always favourable, once even going so far as to produce an ELP special edition (I misguidedly let someone borrow mine a few years back...). New Musical Express were always the worst! All the best, Oz. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 21:29:33 -0700 From: telical@eskimo.com (Robert Pearson) To: arnold@iii.net Subject: ELP and Magma For years I've searched for music that has the qualities of the greatest work by ELP, and have had to settle for music that often is in a different genre. Many ch, rather than a keyboard dominated one. They are known to be probably the most "intense" Progressive bands. Magma have their own mythology, and they invented their own language. Their drummer, Christian Vander, who writes most of their songs, has been called the "Third Best Drummer" internationally by respected jazz panels. I just wanted you to know that there is another band you can look to besides the common ones that tend to get so boring after the years (Yes, Genesis, KC, etc.). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 19:08:58 +0000 To: arnold@iii.net From: wollbeck@bahnhof.se (Anders Wollbeck) Subject: Re ELP Digest V5 #11 (Keith's GX-1) Sandy Smith thought that it was a pity that Keith's lost his GX-1. To me, the GX-1 sounds awful. Compared with Keith's fantastic Moog, Hammond and piano tones, the GX-1 sounds like a bad home organ. Just listen to "Works Live", arrrrg. Imagine what that album would have sounded like without that stupid machine. OK, the GX-1 offers some interesting performance controls but let's hope that nobody reconstructs that damn thing. Anders Wollbeck wollbeck@bahnhof.se ------------------------------ From: "J.W. Bruce Shaw" To: arnold@iii.net Subject: covers, quotes Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 12:43:16 -0700 Around 1977 in London, Ontario there was a solo keyboard act (John ...?) who would do "Take a Pebble" note for note and "Lucky Man" minus synths if I bribed him with enough drinks. Audience loved it. I tried to do "Take a Pebble" with a band I was with in the early 80's in Edmonton but I couldn't hit the high notes or play the middle section. I would throw ELP "quotes" into jams and improvs. I also play (Sampled) Pipe Organ for services at a church where I have to improvise up to 10 minutes a service. I routinely throw in quotes from "Tarkus", the Piano Concerto, Karn Evil 9, Inferno, Addam's Bolero...and then I often encourage prospective brides and grooms to choose something other than Mendelsohn/Wagner wedding music for walking in/out music and often talk them into using the Processional from "Pictures". They never guess that I'm playing the ELP version. One Emerson quote that no-one may have spotted happens on the 2nd side of "Inferno". I don't have the track list, but the choir is chanting something in Latin. There's a bridge in the middle that starts off with some pipe organ music. The quote is the first 8 notes of the subject of J.S. Bach's Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor. Keith quotes a certain amount of organ music and plays well. Did he ever have a church job? I have a badly worn tape copy of "Inferno" (I play it constantly in the car at full volume). It's off some French label and they abruptly chop the end of both sides before the reverb has had a chance to die out so I'll bet it's a bootleg. Is there an official CD release of the Inferno soundtrack? I've been trying to track down the movies Keith did music for. I found "Best Revenge" after trying every video store is town. The cover of the movie stinks and is different than the album cover (excellent). The movie isn't Oscar material but the music does its job. I'm trying to find other movies without success. Any sources? J.W. Bruce Shaw [ Editor's note: I found "Inferno" in a local video store once. I'll see who released it next time I dig it out. Also, I have Harmageddon on laserdisc (Japanese animation import). - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 02:28:54 +0100 To: arnold@iii.net From: st94f365@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (A. Radder) Subject: re: rumors of ELP disbanding >Sad rumours,, > >According to Mr: Ed,,( don't know if he likes to be mentioned with >full name here...) ELP is no more. That would be sad news indeed,, >if its true. Has anyone further information ?? > >Thanks to all,, maybe we together can force another ELP comeback,, > >Greetings.. >Lasse.Eriksson@Lanway.se Well, unfortunately, if the attitudes of the band members continue the way they seem to be now, _any_ comeback would be "forced", quite literally. There has always been tension between KE and GL, but in some recent interviews, he seems really open about the differences between them. I for one think that it might be just as good to let the group "die peacefully" and let KE get going on some good solo stuff! Anyone agree? -Aaron st94f365@post.drexel.edu ------------------------------ From: Bill Berends Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 02:20:35 -0400 To: John E Arnold Subject: Re: Y is Every1 PO'd over new ELP ItHS? On Tue, 2 May 1995 John E Arnold said: > >From: Daniel Barrett >Subject: Re: Y is Every1 PO'd over new ELP ItHS? > >If people want to hear music in the spirit of ELP, and we think that ELP isn't >going to make this music themselves, then there are tons of lesser-known >progressive rock albums out there that may satisfy you. For example: > >ARTIST ALBUM >================================================================ >Mastermind Volume Two: Brainstorm > >All of these albums are available from various prog mailorder stores It's great to see my band MASTERMIND mentioned here in the ELP Digest, thanks! I'd like to mention that our new album MASTERMIND III "Tragic Symphony" is being released by Dutch East India here in the USA and will be available in retail stores by June. If anyone is interested in getting the "Brainstorm" CD (our 2nd album) send me e-mail and I'll supply ordering information. ELP was a great band, and yes, Mastermind has been heavily influenced by their earlier work, but with this new release we've covering some new ground as well. To quote the latest issue of PROGRESSION magazine's review of Tragic Symphony " This is music you and I wish ELP would still be doing - complex and intricate, positively dripping with grandeur, passion, and soul." So check it out if you get a chance - and all my best to KE, get well soon! Bill -- ********************************************* Bill Berends c/o MASTERMIND ********************************************* http://tam2k.tamu.edu/~mdb0213/mastermind.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 95 23:10:08 -0700 To: John E Arnold Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #12 > > > > We've got a ballad > > About a salad brain > > with a surgeon with > > a dirty dinner game. > > Maybe I should just go back and listen, but I always heard: > "with a CIRCUS and a dirty dinner game...", > > - the circus being a reference to the carnival "see the show" atmosphere. There are references in print indicating it's "surgeon", including the Circus magazine article on ELP and _BSS_. BTW, BSS (the song) has zilch to do with KE9. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 95 13:26:40 -0300 From: agorni@cat.cce.usp.br (Antonio Augusto Gorni) To: ceez@bga.com Subject: The Barbarian in live version Cc: arnold@iii.net Hi! I read your note in the lattest issue of the ELP Newsletter. In fact, there's no live version of The Barbarian in "official" ELP albums. However, in the bootleg CD called "ELP Essential", this music is played live. The recording was made in a show in Chicago (I think), in 1971. I also remember that this song was included in a show that was recorded in a French clip about ELP. I think this show was performed in the early 70's. All the best, Antonio ------------------------------ Subject: Bad Words in ELP? To: arnold@iii.net Date: Wed, 3 May 95 14:59:38 PDT From: Glenn Mandelkern Today I was on a city bus and the driver had left his mike on which he uses to announce stops. As he was driving, he happened to say the word "Shit"! I couldn't stop cracking up because the way he said it reminded me of the beginning of the tune "The Sheriff". So are there any other places in ELP music that uses profanity? Perhaps "Bitches" from "Bitches Crystal" qualifies. ------------------------------ From: mathias thallmayer Subject: RE: ELP covers To: arnold@iii.net (ELP Mail List) Date: Wed, 3 May 95 19:41:36 EDT This doesn't exactly qualify as a cover of an ELP track, but I think that you will be interested nonetheless. A guitarist named Alex Masi, on his album "Attack of the Neon Shark", does a guitar/bass/drums (no keys/synths) version of ELP's arrangement of Ginestera's "Tocatta". He even does Palmer's drum triggered synth section, which I call the Zoo. -- Mathias iconoclast@tarkus.ocis.temple.edu ------------------------------ From: aprasad@ccs.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: Emerson solo disc? Is it out? To: arnold@iii.net (elp digest) Date: Wed, 3 May 95 23:47:40 EDT Can anyone confirm that Emerson's solo CD "Changing States" has actually been released? ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ Anil Prasad aprasad@ccs.carleton.ca ~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~ [ Editor's note: As mentioned in Jim Smith's note above, "Changing States" is indeed out. However, it's not easy to find. The folks I know who have it got it in California. Anyone know of other sources? - John - ] ------------------------------ Date: 03 May 95 23:51:31 EDT From: robert vasseur <75107.3331@compuserve.com> To: John E Arnold Subject: bss john: I all ways thought the title from Brain.S.S. came from a line in the song by Dr John's "Right Place Wrong time"! ..(gonna need a little.....B...S....S) bob ------------------------------ From: PEKer Subject: Best Works/Changing States To: arnold@iii.net Date: Thu, 4 May 95 9:06:02 CDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] I was wondering if anyone could comment on these two Emerson solo discs: Best Works Changing States Are they solo piano pieces, or standard synth/organ/piano-type works? Many thanks! Paul knight_paul@cae.cig.mot.com ------------------------------ From: DJHaley@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 16:02:15 -0400 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Re: Other Bands that sound like. Hello, Dan Barret listed some bands that sound like ELP. Some others that I would highly recommend are ARTIST TITLE Cairo Cairo Manticore Time To Fly UK Danger Money, LIVE I can't express how much I like Cairo! Mark Robertson (Keys) will carry the Emerson torch into the 21st century. Take Care, Dennis Haley ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: arnold@iii.net ==\ \ => The same for now... ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: arnold@iii.net =/ Back issues are available from the World Wide Web ELP Home Page: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 5 Issue 15] *************************************