ELP Digest Thursday, September 14 1995 Volume 5 : Issue 23 The "Couldn't See a Trace" Edition Today's Topics: Emerson's Chicago Visit. Those Karn Evil 9 Vocal Credits... The Last Word Re: "Vocals-Keith Emerson" King Biscuit ELP recording and BSS credits Emerson's vocals Subject: Re: KE9 1st imp. credits KE9 Vocals MAYDAY MAYDAY - PAYMENT ALERT WARNING (Price update for Pethel's thesis) ELP Convention, Birmingham Noddy's Puncture ETC. Re: ELP Digest V5 #18 (re: Bjorn-Are's alternative history) RECORD COLLECTOR Re: more on Knife Edge lyrics... Re: PALMS bootleg Wrapping up the TRIUMVERAT thread, etc. Re: ELP Digest V5 #19 (Triumverat & Refugee) Re: News and Comments (Triumverat) Triumvirat triumvirat site Prelude ======= Hi. A wid variety of information in this week's issue. We lead off with some more details on Keith's appearance in Chicago this weekend. Then, readers (including our "definitive source" - Will Alexander) solve the mystery of the KE9 credits. And, there's an initial review of last weekend's ELP Convention held in England (including some reports of a limited edition Emerson CD of demo tapes and alternate arrangements). All this and the usual banter (including the conclusion (?) of the Triumverat thread). More next week. Thanks, as always, for your participation! - John - ------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:54:59 -0500 From: Bruce Modell Subject: Emerson's Chicago Visit. To: John Arnold [ Editor's note: This message provides details about a keyboard seminar in Chicago THIS WEEKEND. Hope someone gets to go and tell us about it. - John - ] The official name of the seminar is MusicTech '95. Tickets are available by calling 708-446-4263, then press 888 for the musictech hotline. Keith will begin speaking @ 3:30pm bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:59:10 -0400 From: Daniel Barrett To: jblock@gartner.com Cc: arnold@iii.net Subject: Re: "Vocals-Keith Emerson" In Digest #18 Bruce Modell stated: >"On the BSS liner notes it says 'vocals-Keith Emerson'??? >What's the deal?? This has bothered me for the longest time!" Let's kill this rumor now. The BSS liner notes have a misprint. It currently says: Emerson - vocals Written by Lake It really means: Emerson Vocals written by Lake This is an old story. The error has been passed from vinyl to CD without being corrected. In addition, the compositional style is not Lake's. It's Emerson's. Lake has never written anything as complex as KE9 First Impression. Finally, the vocals on the First Impression are entirely Greg Lake. Anybody who hears anything else has an active imagination, because Keith simply has no singing voice. Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett -- Computer Science Dept, University of MA, Amherst, MA 01003 | | http://www.cs.umass.edu/~barrett/public.html -- barrett@cs.umass.edu | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------ From: Richard Eckman Subject: King Biscuit ELP recording and BSS credits To: arnold@iii.net Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 07:35:12 -0400 (EDT) John, Comments on two items brought up in the recent ELP Digest: 1) Regarding the King Biscuit Recording of ELP - while the Greg Lake releases states that "Welcome Back" is derived from a King Biscuit recording, there is also a 1977 King Biscuit show that featured ELP in Wheeling, WV. This is a pretty neat Works-era recording, although with no orchestra, which has appeared on various bootlegs. I'm guessing that this is the recording that Bjorn-Are is referring to, not the BSS-era recording. [ Editor's note: I'll agree that it more likely to hear a Works-era King Biscuit CD. But, with Works Live out, I wonder if they think there's enoguh of us who would buy it... - John - ] 2) As for the Karn Evil 9 writing credits, I've seen this thrashed out a bit on alt.music.progressive a few years back. The consensus then (and my personal belief) is that this is nothing more than a typo. The credit reads: Emerson - vocal, Written by Lake I think that the comma and capital "W" was mistakenly added by a typesetter at the time. Take a look at the original LP where there is a line break in the credits. I think that the graphics person simply messed up and this has been carried over, faithfully, in all subsequent releases. Without the comma, all it means is that Emerson wrote the music and Lake wrote the vocals. I simply do not believe that Emerson sung any part of KE9-1st impression or had anything to do with its vocals. Richard Eckman NASA Langley Research Center Hampton, VA eckman@eos1.larc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ From: Jim Smith Subject: Emerson's vocals To: arnold@iii.net (John E Arnold) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 11:48:43 -0800 (PDT) Hi folks! I hope I'm not pounding a point way into the ground, but I just wanted to say that I agree with John Arnold about Keith Emerson's vocals on KE9. That is most definitely Greg singing the first impression. If you have heard Keith sing, you would know that it would take a miracle for him to sound like Greg. No offense meant, but Keith is not really much of a singer at all (and he has admitted that in interviews), and his singing voice could be described as tentative, thin, and reedy. (He reminds me a little bit of Pee-Wee Herman when he sings.) The best example of Keith's singing that I know of is his cover of the old pop hit "I'm a man" from the "Nighthawks" soundtrack. Keith sings the entire song, which was used in the background of a scene in the movie. Other examples are "Intro-Juicing" from "Honky," and "One of those people" from The Nice's "Elegy" (or was it "The Five Bridges?"). "One of those people," though, is not really a very good example, since the voice is run through a ring modulator (foreshadowing KE9's Third Impression, by the way, where Keith does the computer voice through a ring modulator). As John said, the BSS liner notes probably started the myth that Keith sang on the first impression with the poor wording "Emerson-Vocals Written by Lake." ELP album liner notes have frequently contained errors, so this is most likely just another error, or bad phrasing. I think it probably was meant to read "Emerson - Vocals written by Lake," ie, Emerson wrote the music (there is also no way Greg wrote those keyboard parts!) and Greg wrote the vocals, ie, the lyrics and possibly the sung melodies. I'm really thrilled to have seen Keith mention our digest's home page in Keyboard, and am looking forward to whatever he does next. As previously mentioned, the October Keyboard magazine has a very informative interview with Keith. I thought that the discography selections were somewhat lame, since they listed "The Manhattan Collection" only under solo albums, and did not mention his most recent (and now available in a US pressing) CD, "Changing States." The Manhattan Collection is one of the "CHORD" albums, which Keith has expressed disdain for (they were published without his permission) in the past, and only about a third of it is Keith, and it's not even clear who plays what on that album. Changing States, on the other hand, is quite fine, and reflects Keith's more recent work. Keith mentioned in the October Keyboard that, due to his divorce and other events, he hadn't enough money for physiotherapy!!! I wonder if it would be appropriate for some of us to create a hand therapy fund for Keith. Any opinions? Any volunteers? All the Best, - Jim Smith smithj@sr.hp.com ------------------------------ To: John E Arnold Subject: Re: KE9 1st imp. credits Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 19:51:46 +0900 From: Noda Hiroshi Hi, John. I have read an interview with Keith Emerson touching on the credits of KE9 1st impression, 2 or 3 years before. ( It appeared in Japanese Keyboard Magazine if I remember correctly. ) Keith told that he had not sung in the 1st impression. The accurate reading of the credits was '1st impression {written by} Emerson {except} vocal written by Lake'. I forget the reason why Greg wanted to be mentioned his singing at the credits. Unfortunately I can't remember the issue of the Japanese KM this interview appears in. NODA, Hiroshi ------------------------------ From: MIDIMastr@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 13:26:23 -0400 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: KE9 Vocals To whom it may concern, I thought I had put this KE9 vocal credit debate to sleep a while back on AOL, although I realize that a lot of you don't get on the AOL board like you should. The credits have a misprint (duh).The credit for KE vocal on 1st Imp. is WRONG. It should have read KE vocal on KE9 3rd. Impression, as the ONLY vocal that that KE did on the track was the "computer" ring-modulated voice and nothing else. And that's from the HORSES MOUTH. I hope that you all may sleep better now. Sincerely, Will Alexander ------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Wed, 23 Aug 1995 10:03:02 +0200 To: John E Arnold Subject: MAYDAY MAYDAY - PAYMENT ALERT WARNING Re: PAYMENT ALERT, DOCTORAL THESIS John! Please put this early in the next Digest! Someone must have made a mistake on the prize for the Doctoral Thesis on Keith, mentioned in V5#17. I ordered a copy based on the info that the prize was $ 36, and yesterday received a note telling that "full payment for a dissertation is $ 57.50 U.S. Dollars", from University Microfilms' Cashiers Office. And they returned my money by check. My only problem is that I have already been charged about $10 by my bank for my first payment (International money order), and will be charged for cashing the check and then another $10 for sending the right sum. So now I'm not sure if I'm willing to send a new order. Hopefully it's not too late to warn others on this! It's also sad because there are really a lot of fans who have lost money on ELP. I know hard core fans (not on this list) who have sent orders for hundreds of dollars (each!) for ELP Merchandise (in 1993) and not received anything! Just part of the extremely bad commercial handling of ELP the last few years. It seems that the record company (or someone else?) has gone out of their way to turn down ELP fans, both by stopping info phones, official newsletters, sale of merchandise and the poor choice of music we have been allowed on the last two CD's. The result is that few new fans (for you Producers and Record Companies that means BUYERS of ELP CD's) have been won, and old ones have copped out, even if sometimes still putting on good old Tarkus. Bjo/rn Are bjorn-are.davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no ****************************************************************************** - The Weaver in the Web that he made - ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: ELPFAN@aol.com Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:43:24 -0400 To: arnold@iii.net cc: ELPFAN@aol.com Subject: ELP Convention, Birmingham Hello There!!! This is my first post to the ELP Digest. First I'd like to thank John for giving us a place to call home. Now on with the Show!! I've just returned from the ELP Convention in Birmingham. What a Day! Over 350 true ELP Fanatics from all over the world converging at this small consevatory in Birmingham. Most of us were strangers to each other although you felt as if you were with family. Walking to the conservatore you would pass someone on the street, see their ELP shirt and at the same time they'd see yours and you'd just smile because you knew that in a world where ELP fans are outnumbered by the majority here was someone who understood why this band was so special. Not that speaking in the past tense means there is no more ELP.. on the contrary, as we found out at the convention, ELP have NOT officially broken up. They are even planning on something for 1996. So now on to my opinions and expierences at the ELPFEST. As I stated, there were about 350 people there from all over the world. Liv and Robert, the people responsible for the convention happening said that they were amazed at the distances people traveled. There were seven from the U.S. I was from Florida, and I also had the good fortune to meet Joe from Chicago and his friend as well as another chap from New York whose name escapes me at the moment. I'm sure Joe will be wrtiting you today. There were people from Chilie, Brazil, Norway, the UK, Germany, Sweden, you name it. What a day it was. It was fantastic. All in all it went great. It all started at about 12:30pm. After admission, there were a few stalls set up with some merchandise (photos, mugs and convention T-Shirts) but there really wasn't that much to buy. AMP records had KE's christmas CD's, LP's and cassettes as well as the Changing States CD (Autographed for L20) and other progressive CD's. They did have a limited number of "Keith Emerson: The unreleased tapes." This is worth having. It's numbered, there supposedly are only 50 copies made. It's really rare stuff. Intrumental versions of Learning To Fly, ETC. The price was L25 which is roughly $40. Next it was time for the auction. I was shocked at the amount of money people were paying for some of the stuff that really was'nt that rare. For example, a copy of Pictures at an Exhibition CD went for L12 ($20)! Most of the stuff auctioned was posters, CD's, LP's a couple of Reel to Reel copies of the first album and Tarkus. A press kit for the Works LP. Three of Keith's Keyboards were there but only one of them sold and I suspect that since this was a CASH only deal that this was the reason. A Silver Disc for Love Beach was the got the highest bid at L350 (Almost $600!). Keith, Greg and Carl sent video taped interviews/messages apologizing for not being able to attend. KE's & CP's were done on September 1st 1995 and GL's was done in July of 1995, so they were as recent as possible. I was quite optimistic after watching these interviews that ELP have definite plans for future albums and books. Yes, books. Carl said that he would'nt be surprised that at next years convention they may have a surprise for the fans. At the moment he's working with John Wetton on a project. He also said that the last year has been tough on everybody. Not only did Keith have surgery but he did as well. He was experencing pain and found he had carpal tunnel syndrome. But he said that he was fine and able to warm up in half the time it used to take. KE has alot of things on the table now as well most of which all of regular digest readers already know. However when told that demand was high for the 3 music books by ELP that were out of print, he said that he sympithised and understood what musicians go through trying to learn music that there's no sheet music for because he went through the same thing. He said he was going to make some calls to Warner and see if could get them to publish the again. He seemed very optimistic about Rhino-Atlantic now holding the licensing for the ELP catalog and thinks that they will be much better for the bands past and future releases. I guess the most shocking part of these interviews to me was Greg Lake. When asked about ITHS, he said that he was extremely dissappointed in the way it turned out. That it really "isn't what this band is all about." And here most people thought that this album was his idea. ELP playing styles was next, where a guy whose name escapes me at the moment, went through some of KE's writing and playing styles. He did an incredible version of Abbadon's Bolero live. Something ELP tried once that ended in disaster and never tried again. (orchestra verion excluded ofcourse) The ELP quiz was next. Two teams of Three randomly picked people. Whichever team one the first round would go head to head. The questions were pretty tricky. Like "Name the songs in order as they appear on the ELP Live 1977 Video" or "What is the fourth track on the second CD of ROTM?" In the end Joe from Chicago won a great looking plaque with a kid who could'nt of been more than 10 years old coming in 2nd and a guy from the UK who actually answered the question of the song list from the 1977 video correctly coming in 3rd. They also got plaques. NODDY'S PUNCTURE was next up. Remember that name. Noddy's Puncture was the first ELP tribute band to play. They were FANTASTIC!!!! There are no words that I can say to tell how good this band is. I think that everyone thinks of Works 3 to be the ultimate ELP tribute band, but in my opinion NP is far better. You could close your eyes and swear that ELP was up there. They were that GOOD. They started their set with The Score, then went into Learning to Fly, their own Beethoven's 9th, Fanfare for the Common Man complete with Pictures excerpts during the solo and KE's good ol' Hammond feed back as Tom, the Keyboardist wrestled with the and did KE's trademark dagger stabs and jumped over the organ pulling down on top of him while playing Bach's Toccata AND fugue (KE usually plays a very short line from this) then going into "Flight of the Bumble Bee" and all sorts of other things. The organ ended up on its side in the middle of the stage. They played a version of Edgar Winter's Frankenstein that was awsome. Touch and Go was great as was everything else they did. During "America" the guy actually pulled out a ribbon controller during the solo making God awful noises while rubbing it on his bum as KE does and even shot fireworks out of the end of it. (I was wondering if he blew his thumb nail off as KE did as well. This guy was FANTASTIC. He's got KE down to a TEE. I think Keith would be shocked! Works 3 on the other hand were good, but with the exception of their drummer, I was'nt overly impressed. They're timing was off alot, they're singer was straining and off key quite a bit (although he could of been GL's double) there were alot of off notes and basicly they just were'nt tight. They had some equipment problems with their keyboards and the distorted sound that cams from them made me cringe several times. Their sound tech was awful as well. He had everything turned up so loud that when the band was'nt playing, you could hear the amps rumbling. The balance between the vocals and keyboards were all off and there was more than one instance of feedback. Works 3 had there heart in it and did a formidable job with "Nutrocker" and "Hoedown" but most of the pieces were not up to par with Noddy's Puncture. All in All, the ELP convention was a great success. For one day people came together from all over the world to celebrate 25 years of ELP. Their fans are as loyal as they come. And we all eagerly await for the next one. Cheers all, ELPFAN ------------------------------ From: ELPFAN@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 13:25:38 -0400 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Noddy's Puncture ETC. Only one word to describe ELP Tribute band, NODDY'S PUNCTURE... UNBELIEVABLE!!! If anyone in the UK ever gets a chance to see them, I strongly suggest you GO. ELP may be taking a break, but with Noddy's Puncture around, they'll definitely satisfy the need for live ELP! I've often wanted to form the same sort of band here in the US, but have had little success in finding interested people. So here goes... Anyone in the South Florida area interested? Until next time, ELPFAN P.S. ALSO... NEW KEITH EMERSON CD!!!! It's called "Keith Emerson- Learning to Fly: The Unreleased Demos" AMP Records has/had 'em. I don't have the CD with me at the moment but I believe the track list is: Learning to Fly ( Demo Version) Shelter from the Rain (Demo Version) Down on the Circle Line ( Unreleased Demo) Throw Down Your Guns (Demo Version) Down on the Circle Line (Instrumental Version) Throw Down Your Guns (Instrumental Version) Learning to Fly (Instrumental Version) There may be another one in there somewhere, like I said, I'm not looking at the CD at the moment. I was told at the convention, where I purchased it, that there were only a limited quantity made, so if your interested try to contact AMP. They are the same label that Changing States is on. I was told that Roger Daltry is singing on selected tracks. GOOD LUCK ELPFAN ------------------------------ From: Jbuzzo@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 21:59:37 -0400 To: arnold@iii.net Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #18 (re: Bjorn-Are's alternative history) I heartily enjoyed reading Bjorn Are Davidsen's alternate history of ELP. Just a couple of minor changes I'd add: >The single with and Invention> on the B-side reached No. 1 on the lists. (major snip) I would have thought the reverse would have happened; that C'est la Vie would have been the hit single. (With Fanfare as the follow-up, perhaps?) "Bullfrog " would have been my choice for the "Memoirs" album over "So far to Fall". "So Far" would sound lame on Love Beach! Palmer really shows his chops on this quirky, jazzy little number and it would nicely precede " Brain Salad Surgery" (as it does in the "real" world on Works 2). Another thing : a lot of the things on these mythical albums were actually recorded a lot earlier in thier career. Like, BSS (the song) was recorded in 1973, Father X-mas around 1975 (I think). What WOULD the critics have said about having these songs on '78 and '79 releases? I seem to recall them snickering about this for the Works albums. However, these are but quibbles. I really dug the whole alternate universe bit. I may even go so far as to make a' tape' of these"albums" (my versions, Bjorn's great titles) Maybe I'll even tell everyone this really happened, I like this version of history better! Jbuzzo ------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:49:36 +0200 To: John E Arnold Subject: RECORD COLLECTOR Re: RECORD COLLECTOR Having finally gotten hold of a copy of Record Collector for August I have now with my own eyes seen that it's indeed possible to get a fair, serious and extremely admiring appraisal of ELP (even if those three things naturally always should go together :-))! ELP and Prog rock is dealt with as a up til now forgotten set of gems in the one page leading column, where also the nasty critics get what they deserve. On the sadder side (or indeed, perhaps not!) it's saying that Keith Emerson now has anounced that he has decided to abandon rock music in favor of more "serious" musicianship. Keith is featured on the whole of the back cover. There's a 12 (not fifteen) pages presentation of ELP and Asia. The presentation is by Justin Beaney who really does understand what he is writing about, especially as he is in total agreement with me :-). He finds ELP's first five albums and Welcome Back to be marvellous, and Brain Salad as the topper. Works to Love Beach gets less than favorable criticism, as well as side two of ELPowell and the whole of Black Moon and In The Hot Seat. Among heaps of interesting comments it's intriguing that he mentions that part of the reason is that also Greg had changed his instrumentation (like Keith replacing his Moog with the infamous Yamaha) away from his wah-wah pedal to a more lame bass. Keith's "Inferno" and "Best Revenge" get very favorable reviews, while his other solo efforts are not considered as being of that class (Changing States are not mentioned). Greg's first solo album also gets a rather good review., while "Manoevres in the Dark" is seen as leftovers from the first album. Beisides the ELP/Asia stuff there's also an interesting article on synt pop star Howard Jones who Record Collector now reveals as a 70th prog rocker, heavily onfluenced by Keith. Howard Jones (or his record company) has not been willing to say this earlier, due to a fear of that reducing his commercial appeal... Now, that's an interesting one! To say it short: Record Collector's August 95 issue contains the best article on ELP that I have ever seen in a "serious magazine"! Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ From: Gary Katch To: arnold@kilsythe.banyan.com (John Arnold) Subject: Re: more on Knife Edge lyrics... Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 10:12:10 EDT > ... >Trancribed by Rich Kulawiec, rsk@ecn.purdue.edu. > >Tread the room, cross the abbess, ^^^^^^ Whoa! Never cross the head nun, if you know what's good for you! -- gk, crossing the abyss ------------------------------ From: "Rainer Boettchers" To: John E Arnold Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 14:37:56 +0000 Subject: Re: PALMS bootleg Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Hi, during a telephone conversion with my brother (telling him what you can do in WWW, talking about all this available infos about music) he told me that he still owns this old 2-LP set <>, a bootleg of ELP from, let's say, 1974. I really forgot this LP with the nice cover, even though I bought it myself. Surprise, surprise ... Any one else who knows this (I think) earliest ELP bootleg? Or is this really new information? Stay tuned, RainerB ------------------------------ From: "Rainer Boettchers" To: John E Arnold Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 15:08:42 +0000 Subject: Re: ELP Digest V5 #19 (Triumverat) Hi, I just read the message from Bjorn-Are.Davidsen concerning ELP related groups. Some info from my side (to whom it may concern ...): TRIUMVIRAT I also got a record from them (<<64 A.D.>>) with Kurt Kress (who is a phantastic drummer). This record is really ELP-hear-alike. The difference is: after listening to <> a hundred times, <<64 A.D.>> is boring after three or four tries. NICE-BORN-AGAIN In 1975 (?) there was a group called REFUGEE. The keyboard is played by Patrick Moraz (later playing with YES etc.); the rest is the old NICE staff. There is only one record but this is really interesting. It is not really ELP-alike; nevertheless very colourful and with some good ideas. I found the record in 1978 in an Austrian food store. Some months ago I also got the CD from a German CD mail order store (JPC). Stay tuned, RainerB ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 10:12:49 -0400 From: Daniel Barrett To: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Subject: Re: News and Comments (Triumverat) Reply-To: barrett@cs.umass.edu On July 14, 1995, Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no wrote: >I have finally had the opportunity to dig into Triumvirat's music.... >"Old Loves Die Hard" (1978?) and "Spartacus" (1975). >... >Triumvirat is like having a pastiche of a pastiche. Fritz copies >riffs from Tarkus and Trilogy, mixes it with some more rock oriented >cliches and ends up with something that sounds exactly like the nasty >critics say ELP sounds like! I mean "pompous", "pretentious", >"dinosauric" and the rest.. Sorry you feel that way, Bjorn. Here is a different opinion. Yes, it is undeniable that Triumvirat was heavily influenced by the ELP sound, even copying from ELP pieces. But Triumvirat does have their own sound too, and the key is this: melody. Many of Triumvirat's vocal melodies would never have been written by ELP. I love the melodies of "The Sweetest Sound of Liberty" (which sounds more like The Who's TOMMY than like ELP) and the first parts of "Spartacus." Listen to how "First Success" ends, with the line "and victory... is near." Then comes a single, haunting piano note, which hangs in the air and serves as a bizarre transition to "Spartacus." I *love* that. Then comes the first melody of "Spartacus" ("The day is gone, the sky is red"). It is deceptively simple, but the harmony underneath is quite strange... and it sounds so natural! This was put together by a talented composer. In my opinion, the whole sequence from "Sweetest Sound of Liberty" through the end of the album is very inspired and enjoyable music. Yes, the later vocal parts in "A Broken Dream" ("Sky's so blue, the sun is shining high...") are ripped almost directly from "Karn Evil 9 First Impression." Yes, there is "recycling" going on here. :-) But not everything on the album is that way. Triumvirat manages to create an original sound in various parts of the album, using the same instruments that ELP did. Listen for those parts, and you may enjoy them. I don't like OLD LOVES DIE HARD particularly. To my ears, it is a corny album. You still might want to try ILLUSIONS ON A DOUBLE DIMPLE and POMPEII. They have plenty of parts that are not as ELP influenced, especially POMPEII. Dan //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ | Dan Barrett -- Computer Science Dept, University of MA, Amherst, MA 01003 | | http://www.cs.umass.edu/~barrett/public.html -- barrett@cs.umass.edu | \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------ From: Bjorn-Are.Davidsen@s.prosjekt98.telenor.no Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 23:11:20 +0200 To: John E Arnold Subject: Triumvirat John! As Dan also sent me his response to my Triumvirat trashing, I'm already able to provide the Digest with my reply. Re: DAN'S RESPONSE TO TRIUMVIRAT CRITICISM Thanks for comments, Dan! I think the moral here is that I have to give Triumvirat a few more listenings, at least Spartacus! I heard first "Old Loves" several times and was very disappointed and when getting Spartacus some weeks later I may have been too influenced by misgivings from the other CD. Another reason may have been that I have had too great expectations after some people told me that "Spartacus" was the album ELP should have done after Brain Salad. Even if you may be very right about the melody part, I still have to come over that disappointment! Just as I now am striving to get over the Mastermind disappointment after having listened to Tragic Symphony a couple of times! And thanks for your marvelous works on the Gentle Giant Home page! It's the only HP I have had printed out in full and put in a book by my CD rack (and updating everytime I discover new gems and corrections!). Bjo/rn Are ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 17:06:49 -0600 (CST) From: "Alex Rubli K." To: John E Arnold Subject: triumvirat site Some while ago I saw some questions about 'triumvirat', here is a site I found with info: http://www.eskimo.com/~olias/t_vat.html keep up the good job, John, it's great alex ------------==========-------____\|/___-------==========------------ | Alexander Rubli K. Universidad de las Americas,Puebla | | Rubli@Noc.Pue.Udlap.Mx Sta. Catarina Martir | | Alexander_E._Rubli@csgi.com Cholula,72820 Puebla | | vox:(52) (22) 29-2158 FAX:(52) (22) 29-2140 MEXICO | | URL: http://140.148.1.16/eno/Arubli.shtml "" "" | | ----------------------------------------- - O | | Honour thy errors as a hidden intention (B. Eno) I | ------------==========_______----/|\----_______==========---- ~. ------------------------------ Digest, mailing address, and administrative stuff to: arnold@iii.net ==\ \ => The same for now... ELP-related info that you / want to put in the digest to: arnold@iii.net =/ Back issues are available from the World Wide Web ELP Home Page: URL: http://bliss.berkeley.edu/elp/ Note: The opinions, information, etc. contained in this digest are those of the original message sender listed in each message. They are not necessarily those of the mailing list/digest administrator or those of any institution through whose computers/networks this mail flows. Unless otherwise noted, the individual authors of each entry in the Digest are the copyright holders of that entry. Please respect that copyright and act accordingly. I especially ask that you not redistribute the ELP Digest in whole or in part without acknowledging the original source of the digest and each author. Thanks! ------------------------------ End of ELP Digest [Volume 5 Issue 23] *************************************